PROJECT DOKE

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venari
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PROJECT DOKE

Postby venari » Wed Feb 03, 2016 1:04 pm

///WELCOME///

GOT A STUPID QUESTION TO ASK ABOUT YOUR BIKE? I'VE PROBABLY ALREADY ASKED IT HERE!

I started this thread to get help with a problem I was having with my bike but it has ended up more of a read.

CONTENTS (so far)
Starting Issues - Fault Finding (Electrical, Fuelling & Carbs)
Modifications - Upgrading Chain & Sprockets
Maintenance - Carb Cleaning
Maintenance - Clip-on Removal
Back to Starting Issues
Maintenance - Old Exhaust Removal
Modifications - Rear Shock Upgrade & Powder Coat Preparation

Below you'll find the original content from the initial question asked:

I recently bought this bike and I took it out for the first proper long ride on Saturday and about 10 miles in it cut out as I slowed down leaving the motorway.

I've been bump starting it without a problem since I bought it because the battery was shot.

At first I figured it was the fuel as it was nearly empty so I did the 'walk of shame' to the nearest petrol station (around 2 miles away). But when I filled it up it still wouldn't start (bump starting down the slip road when there were breaks in traffic).

A few hours later the RAC arrived and stuck a charger on it and we got it running. I let it run for about 10mins at high revs to warm it back up and get a bit of charge back into the battery to get me home BUT as I pulled away it conked out again. I tried restarting it and it sprung back into life but when I twisted the throttle there was no power there and it just died again.

RAC left and I continued bumping it down the slip road to keep myself warm. It was so close to working!!!

After a total of 5 hours on the roadside in the cold rain the RAC lorry arrived and we took it home.

The new battery arrived this afternoon and I stuck it in and fired her up. At first nothing, but eventually I got her running on one cylinder at full choke for a few seconds. Any throttle and it dies.

Anybody got any ideas what my next step should be?

What's the easiest way to do a plug pull? Do I need to remove the rad?
Last edited by venari on Sun Jul 17, 2016 12:35 pm, edited 8 times in total.

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Re: Broken down, now won't start...

Postby TomcatMJ » Wed Feb 03, 2016 4:52 pm

Just check the Voltage Regulator(Voltage at idle speed and at 3000-4000 rpm, post the values here), it's known for sudden death and is replacable with either one of a FZR 600 (same Regulator) or better with a little rewireing one of the FZR 600R, YZF 600 Thundercat or an YZF-R6...
If teh Regulator works properly just check the breather-hose of the battery if its an acid-battery, because that /&%%%$§- Hose is faster stuck when remounting the Battery as one would expect and a stucked Breatherhose lets the Battery start overheating, too...
By the way, removing the Rad completely is not necesary, just put him a bit beside after loosening the Monuting screws (not lossening the hose-clamps)...the kardan-adapter from a ratches box will help to get the ratch to the spark-plug nut, the other adapters are mostly a bit to long to fit with the ratch under the frame ;)
And at least: The Service Manual for the 3BF mostly fits also to the first gen 1WG as the 3BF is based on it(and the 3BF Service Manual is written in english,not in japanese :D , so no needs for learning how to read x-mastrees ).
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Re: Broken down, now won't start...

Postby Evilchicken0 » Thu Feb 04, 2016 8:10 am

Take the battery off and charge it - sometimes they need a this even when new.
Renewing the plugs would be a help, even if it's not them it's always good to do on a new (to you) bike.
Does the fuel pump prime fully before you try to fire the engine up ? - turn the ignition on and listen for the pump it should slow and then stop, flick the kill switch off then on and it should just click 2 or 3 times.

If the reg rec has gone it can cause the electrics to spike which can blow some fuses so find the fuse box (under the rear left hand seat panel I think .... and pull them out one at a time so they go back right.

The rest of this really relies on the bike running, but it should run even if the reg rec or alternator is faulty. When it does run don't rev it to much.
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Re: Broken down, now won't start...

Postby venari » Thu Feb 04, 2016 2:59 pm

Thanks for the replies, this is by far the most modern bike I've ever owned and I have to admit I'm feeling a little out of my depth with it!

I didn't know they made bikes with fuel pumps! I had wondered what the clicking was but had assumed it was something to do with the technological wizardry that is the radiator!

I've not managed to do any more to the bike as I've been working but I will get it out again this weekend.

In the meantime here's the video I took of it when I replaced the battery with the new one:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8D5_1ZNDAL0&feature=youtu.be

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Re: Broken down, now won't start... *VIDEO*

Postby TomcatMJ » Thu Feb 04, 2016 4:06 pm

Sound like the engine has drowned in fuel and not like valve-problems or something worse...so close the fuel cock, fire up 3-4 times with opened choke and it should fire up,then slowly open the fuelcock again and it should keep running ;)
If not then take off the tankcover and use some starterspray or brakecleaner to spray into the airbox immideately before starting the engine,then it should start and you should let it run at least 30-60 seconds and move the gasgrip in this time a few times to at least 1/3 in order to be sure it then keeps running with fuel and not only the starterspray ...
"The social dynamics of the net are a direct consequence of the fact that nobody has yet developed a Remote Strangulation Protocol." -- Larry Wall
Want Pics? Then have a look at my galleries...different topics: Bike and Car restauration, exhibitions, Trackdays (no, not me on the Track until now), carneval in cologne, other things.. ;)

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Re: Broken down, now won't start... *VIDEO*

Postby venari » Thu Feb 04, 2016 4:36 pm

TomcatMJ wrote:Sound like the engine has drowned in fuel and not like valve-problems or something worse...


Now you've said it that makes sense.

When I first test rode the bike it felt a bit 'fluffy' at high revs but I thought that was just because it had been standing a long time.

Problem I have is, which way is off / reserve / on - on the petcock? I can't see it written anywhere... Also the tacho cable is right in the way - which makes it very hard to turn!

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Re: Broken down, now won't start... *VIDEO*

Postby venari » Thu Feb 04, 2016 4:37 pm

Also, its getting through fuel quicker than I expected (hence being nearly out of fuel when it broke down).

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Re: Broken down, now won't start... *VIDEO*

Postby TomcatMJ » Thu Feb 04, 2016 5:07 pm

The petcock has the shape of an arrow...if the arrow shows to the front it's in "Off"-Position, downwards is "On"-Position and upwards is "Reserve"-Position (printed as "PRI" on the petcock..."primary reserve"? "Prior to stop"? "Put Reserve In"?).
But if you need more than 5,8 Litres per 100 km (or are not able to reach at least 150 miles without using reserve or refuelling the tank) then you should check the mixture-settings of your carbs,perhaps clean the carbs (best disassembled in an Ultrasonic Bath but also possible with a bath in a warm solvent of water and a good industrial cleaner, some non-metal line like fishing-line for picking the jets and channels free and compressed air for drying), sync the carbs and readjust the mixture and then sync them a second time just after mixture-adjustment as after a long time standing around there may also be some dirt (dried petrol-junk combined with some dust etc.) inside the jets or channels and also the seals might be overaged and have some minor cracks and dents,too ...

Maybe your tacho-cable is not well positioned but placed somewhere where it shoul usually not be....
For the definitely proper Position of the tacho-cable, checkout the chapter about cablerouting in the cockpit-diagram in the 3BF Service Manual (available in the Net if you look for FZR 400 or FZR 400 A Service Manual) as its the same cable-routing/cable-layout as used at the first gen 1WG ...
Image02042013293 by tomcatmj, auf Flickr
There you can see the cable runing outside the left Forktubes through the holder which is mounted directly behind one of the Fairing-Brackets at the lefthand-side of the rad...maybe a previous owner mounted it between the fork tubes due to a lack of knowledge where to put it correctly, then it migth cause trouble while steering as it seems to short sometimes ;)
"The social dynamics of the net are a direct consequence of the fact that nobody has yet developed a Remote Strangulation Protocol." -- Larry Wall
Want Pics? Then have a look at my galleries...different topics: Bike and Car restauration, exhibitions, Trackdays (no, not me on the Track until now), carneval in cologne, other things.. ;)

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Re: Broken down, now won't start... *VIDEO*

Postby willandrip » Fri Feb 05, 2016 3:04 am

It is not the tacho cable......the Fzr series are electrically operated.

Nor is it the speedo cable....it routes nowhere near the fuel tap.

It is however, the clutch cable and the correct route is very near the fuel tap and it does obstruct its use.

Image


Image
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Re: Broken down, now won't start... *VIDEO*

Postby willandrip » Fri Feb 05, 2016 3:23 am

Watching your vid;

Sounds to me like blocked jets.
Are you 100% sure it has been running on all 4 cylinders since you obtained it ?

From your fuel economy description and lack of power it may be that it has only been running on 3 cylinders and the throttle has been used to compensate for lack of power and hence the low mileage.

All of my 400s do about 125 miles per tank before reserve but are ridden quite hard (no commuting).

If it has stood a while before purchase or been neglected the tank may have sediment or rust.
This obstructs the fuel tap filter...then the in line fuel filter upstream of the pump.....then the small filter in the
T joint at the carbs (this is usually a 3EN series failing but we do not know if your carbs are original)....eventually the debris migration blocks jets....as does scale from modern fuels.

Get it running again and spray some water on each downpipe to see which cylinders are affected......use your hand if you are hard ....and like skin burns !
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Re: Broken down, now won't start... *VIDEO*

Postby TomcatMJ » Fri Feb 05, 2016 8:43 am

willandrip wrote:It is not the tacho cable......the Fzr series are electrically operated.

Indeed, it was my fault which happend due to the fact that "Tachometer" in german means "Speedometer" in english as "Tachometer" in english means "Drehzahlmesser" in german :D (mxiups could happen in the late evening, it was 11:07 in the evening here in germany when i posted ;)

And by the way, if the clutch cable is properly positioned its not disturbing the turning of the petcock (unless its a bit short for positioning at the frames inner side)...but at my 3BF i always have to look for the electric wires from the wireloom when i take out the tank and put it in again, mostly the cables coming from the alternator seem to like jumping off their position at the frame and try to stay in the way where the petcock usually should be...solution: Put them to the frames innner side and fixate in there with a small piece of duct tape ;)
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Want Pics? Then have a look at my galleries...different topics: Bike and Car restauration, exhibitions, Trackdays (no, not me on the Track until now), carneval in cologne, other things.. ;)

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Re: Broken down, now won't start... *VIDEO*

Postby Evilchicken0 » Fri Feb 05, 2016 8:59 am

Change the fuel filter.
It does sound like it's fuel - it's been standing and it ran out of petrol, sounds like it's got crap in the filters or jets. Use a torch and look in the fuel tank over where the fuel tap is, there should be a filter on top of the tap, but they can detach, if there's crap around there it's better to clean it all.
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Re: Broken down, now won't start... *VIDEO*

Postby willandrip » Fri Feb 05, 2016 9:42 am

The clutch cable always interferes with the fuel tap to some extent.......it is the angle that it affixes to the sprocket casing and the very close proximity of the tap....it does go behind the lever though.

If the owner is unsure on tank removal to search for debris......go to a "Pound Shop" (a cheap discount shop for our European readers) and buy one of these....or Ebay for about £2.99 delivered.

Image

They are great for inserting into tanks , twirl it around and inspect the magnetic end for signs of rust.
If it is excessive...then remove the tank and clean it and all filters.
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Re: Broken down, now won't start... *VIDEO*

Postby Evilchicken0 » Fri Feb 05, 2016 12:20 pm

Now why didn't I think of that .... you can get them with an led light in them
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Re: Broken down, now won't start... *VIDEO*

Postby TomcatMJ » Fri Feb 05, 2016 12:27 pm

Hm...i guess firefly from the electric switch of a cheap LED-Light doesn't play soo well with fuel-damps ;)
"The social dynamics of the net are a direct consequence of the fact that nobody has yet developed a Remote Strangulation Protocol." -- Larry Wall
Want Pics? Then have a look at my galleries...different topics: Bike and Car restauration, exhibitions, Trackdays (no, not me on the Track until now), carneval in cologne, other things.. ;)


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