PROJECT DOKE

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venari
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Re: PROJECT DOKE

Postby venari » Sun Jul 24, 2016 2:42 pm

willandrip wrote:Search for the R6 06 owners manual on line...I am pretty sure that is where I got the initial settings from and then adjusted to compensate for the different mass and slightly different geometry.
Somewhere in the upper 2/3rds of all settings was very near for me..13st rider..fast road.
Familiarise yourself with the adjusters and how they feel (count clicks) on the bench.
Take notes of your initial test setting and only alter one parameter at a time until you find what suits.
Legion are the tales of woe from those who twiddle all the adjustment at once and pogo stick into the scenery at the first fast bend.
DO NOT force any of the screw adjustments once mounted...You have been warned.

Problem is .....you will want to upgrade the front forks next.

According to the 2CO Manual:
Preload
1 - Softest
4 - Standard
9 - Hardest

Rebound Damping
First turn the adjuster fully clockwise, then:
20 Clicks Anti Clockwise - Softest
10 Clicks Anti Clockwise - Standard
3 Clicks Anti Clockwise - Hardest

Compression Damping - FAST
Again, turn the adjuster fully clockwise, then:
16 Clicks Anti Clockwise - Softest
7 Clicks Anti Clockwise - Standard
1 Click Anti Clockwise - Hardest

Compression Damping - SLOW
Turn the adjuster fully clockwise, then:
24 Clicks Anti Clockwise - Softest
15 Clicks Anti Clockwise - Standard
1 Click Antic Clockwise - Hardest

Source: http://www.yamaha-motor.com/assets/service/manuals/2007/lit-11626-20-43_r6_1310.pdf

You are so right willandrip!!!! It seems a shame to have upgraded the rear and not do anything to the front end! (Even though there was nothing *wrong* with it to start with).

What are the options for the front end? It looks like you've gone with shortened springs - what make are they and where did you get the spacer?

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Re: PROJECT DOKE

Postby venari » Sun Jul 24, 2016 2:53 pm

I did a load of research to get my bearings sorted and as it might be useful to someone one day I've uploaded a screenshot of an excel sheet I was working on.
Attachments
FZR4001WGUK Bearings Guide.jpg
Bearings Research

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Re: PROJECT DOKE

Postby willandrip » Sun Jul 24, 2016 11:50 pm

Two very good posts...the info from both could do with being pinned somewhere for future reference .

On front fork upgrade.

Those pictured are Wurth Progressive springs fitted to the first 3EN2 I refurbed.
They came from Germany and were reasonably priced...the spacer comes with them.

The very short weak spring and ridiculously long spacer is the original.
With this information you can easily see why the front suspension leaves a lot to be desired.

The real upgrade is to fit a set of Racetech valve emulators and their springs with the correct rate for your body weight.
There are quite a few companies doing a snide copy of the valve emulators (cartridge) at a sensible price.
This means you can buy the correct rated springs from USA expensively BUT get the valves from Europe cheaper and the saving just about equates to the ridiculous cost of shipping and import duty from USA for the springs.
You may even find a UK dealer who may order in springs for you when they are putting a bulk order in for themselves and the shipping cost is then massively cut.
Them ham shanks proper take the piss with shipping ..You have been warned.

You need to be careful ordering the cartridges though as there is a difference in fork dia. in Fzr 400 models.

It is quite a simple conversion using cartridges...I have done one on a Yamaha TR3 conversion from a YR5 chassis.
Image
Mine is not quite to this stage yet...Lol.
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Re: PROJECT DOKE

Postby willandrip » Mon Jul 25, 2016 1:01 am

I would add;

Before spending on the front suspension I would ;

A; Get it back on the road to take advantage of the summer weather..we don't get much..Lol.

B: Take stock of the front brakes (the rear only ever benefits from servicing and clean pads. A braided hose looks like you know what you are doing )
Don't be frightened to remove the rear pads and deglaze them with coarse wet/dry paper on a flat surface using a circular motion.Most riders drag rear brakes and never use them properly...A good rider very rarely uses the rear nowadays..tyre technology and improved front brakes have virtually eliminated their use except in emergency and poor weather conditions.(Racers use it to drift/drag into corners for alignment..I doubt you will find that necessary quite yet.)
The front pads benefit from this too.
Upgrade the front brake hoses to braid if not done.
Consider a front caliper upgrade.
More on this later as many will ASSUME that this cannot be done with your single piston caliper fork mounts.
(Std upgrade is twin pot blue spots but wont fit your 89mm? mount bolt spacing)[Any "spot"/"dot" caliper is 100mm spacing]
Budget for upgraded used master to match upgraded calipers.

Once the rear suspension and front brakes are in top form and you have access to good fast roads with your new tyres and IF you are a capable rider then will you see if the front suspension requires work.
Use a zip tie on the stanchion to measure travel....you will invariably see that the full travel is continually used and the forks are bottoming out.
Tis then that front suspension becomes critical.

That old bloke Newton must have had a fantastic sense of foresight.
"Each action has an equal and opposite reaction"

Hundreds of years ago...he knew if you upgraded a bikes rear end the front would then need to be attended to...Lol.
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Re: PROJECT DOKE

Postby DonTZ125 » Mon Jul 25, 2016 2:04 am

willandrip wrote:A good rider very rarely uses the rear nowadays..tyre technology and improved front brakes have virtually eliminated their use except in emergency and poor weather conditions.(Racers use it to drift/drag into corners for alignment..I doubt you will find that necessary quite yet.)

A neat trick I learned just before I left the track for good - a light application of the rear just before the braking marker settles the chassis and reduces the amount of dive. I never actually used it, as I was out there with an aluminum rear disk ... :whistle

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Re: PROJECT DOKE

Postby Evilchicken0 » Mon Jul 25, 2016 8:25 am

I think 3tj callipers fit the genesis forks, TJ bolt spacing are 84mm so have a measure of them. Then change the master to a radial, that will slow you down ;)
be careful with the brake lines, a 2 line (race) style has a longer banjo bolt going into the master, check the clearance between your original and the revcounter on full lock if it's less than 15mm go for a 3 line kit
Don't read everything you believe
FZR400RR 3TJ Bimota SB6

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Re: PROJECT DOKE

Postby venari » Mon Jul 25, 2016 9:31 am

Important Update
Just realised the wife is working this weekend and it's my favourite local road races this weekend!

Plan is to get the bike back together and running before the weekend so I can ride it to the races and park it next to all the cool race bikes!!!

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Re: PROJECT DOKE

Postby willandrip » Mon Jul 25, 2016 2:37 pm

DonTZ125 wrote:
willandrip wrote:A good rider very rarely uses the rear nowadays..tyre technology and improved front brakes have virtually eliminated their use except in emergency and poor weather conditions.(Racers use it to drift/drag into corners for alignment..I doubt you will find that necessary quite yet.)

A neat trick I learned just before I left the track for good - a light application of the rear just before the braking marker settles the chassis and reduces the amount of dive. I never actually used it, as I was out there with an aluminum rear disk ... :whistle


Better description than mine...Lol.
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Re: PROJECT DOKE

Postby willandrip » Mon Jul 25, 2016 2:43 pm

Evilchicken0 wrote:I think 3tj callipers fit the genesis forks, TJ bolt spacing are 84mm so have a measure of them. Then change the master to a radial, that will slow you down ;)
be careful with the brake lines, a 2 line (race) style has a longer banjo bolt going into the master, check the clearance between your original and the revcounter on full lock if it's less than 15mm go for a 3 line kit


The way forward for both the 3HE and the Genesis is the use of Triumph Nissan twin pot calipers.
Pretty sure the very first Yam 600/400 legs are 89mm spacing.
There is a post on here by a UK member who upgraded his 600 with them ...IIRC it was John .....?...Cracking write up anyhow...
EDIT>>
Here;
http://fzronline.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=10509
Check out his other posts with pics..
Also here;
http://www.fzrarchives.com/ipb/index.php?showtopic=57073
You will want to upgrade to a remote reservoir master anyhow Boris....this bypasses the old banjo bolt/instruments conflict as the outlet is at 90 degrees and clears...+ it gives the option of cheap span adjustable levers.
Last edited by willandrip on Mon Jul 25, 2016 2:59 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: PROJECT DOKE

Postby willandrip » Mon Jul 25, 2016 2:45 pm

venari wrote:Important Update
Just realised the wife is working this weekend and it's my favourite local road races this weekend!

Plan is to get the bike back together and running before the weekend so I can ride it to the races and park it next to all the cool race bikes!!!


In your dreams if you think you can get a road bike into the paddock...Lol.
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Re: PROJECT DOKE

Postby venari » Mon Jul 25, 2016 4:13 pm

Words fail to express just how much I despise these things right now:
Image

After much patience and all the persuasive power of every profanity I know it looks like I'm going to have to grind off the last four bolts from my rear subframe before it goes to the powder coaters.

They are used to hold the plastic tray to the subframe.

They have been soaked in wd40, carefully heated and cooled, and I've tried every pair of pliers I own. They still spin in the plastic seating and rip everything apart.

Why use such a rubbish fixing in such a corrosive location on the bike? It's almost like they wanted it to screw everything up.

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Re: PROJECT DOKE

Postby willandrip » Mon Jul 25, 2016 5:06 pm

Your going about that the wrong way.
You cut the fixing head off with a dremmel type tool in stages so as to NOT get enough heat in the fixing to melt the plastic.
The speed nut can then be winkled out or gently prised apart to get the cut off remains to clear and then discarded.

Chewing on and destroying plastic is folly.....take a step back and contemplate another means of removal when faced with these sort of problems.

Use good quality items on the rebuild...not the £2 for 20 trash. (search for racing motorcycle part suppliers...they would not be in business for 3 months if they sold shite)
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Re: PROJECT DOKE

Postby venari » Thu Jul 28, 2016 7:28 am

I farted around for an hour or so with the dremel but eventually got out the grinder.

Just popped into the powder coaters to see how they're getting on, really excited to get the parts back.

Everything is going satin black.

V

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Re: PROJECT DOKE

Postby venari » Thu Aug 11, 2016 12:59 am

Got the parts back from the powder coaters!

Finished grinding down the shock mount and got it all offered up to the frame.

Next items on my list are:
Rebuild rear end
Check valve clearances (whilst I can get to the engine!)
Oil & filter change
Fit exhaust
Rebuild front end
Track day on 10th September

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Re: PROJECT DOKE

Postby venari » Fri Aug 12, 2016 12:39 pm

Due to time constraints I won't be checking the valve clearances at this stage.

However, I have found a superb guide on how to do it with photos here: (specific to FZR400!)
http://www.instructables.com/id/Valve-Clearance-Adjustment-How-To-inline-4-motorc/

I'm expecting this to be a winter job now as I am expecting to have to do some adjustments.


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