Mega/Microsquirt ECUs

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Mega/Microsquirt ECUs

Postby feef » Tue Jul 06, 2010 6:35 am

I've been looking about for flatslides for my FZR400 project track/race bike.

I have been told there were both Keihin and Mikunis that would fit, and while I can find the Keihin FCR 33mm carbs, they aren't cheap.
The only Mikunis I can find are 34mm, and I've been told by a supplier that they don't do a Mikuni to fit the FZR400.

Can anyone confirm either way? The Mikunis are quite a bit cheaper (almost 1/2 the price of the Keihins) so it IS an attractive alternative to forking out over £1200

tia

a
Last edited by feef on Thu Jul 08, 2010 3:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Flatslide carbs

Postby ragedigital » Tue Jul 06, 2010 9:18 am

There have been numerous discussions about the "flatsides". Try a search. Here is the most recent discussion:

viewtopic.php?f=19&t=6268
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Re: Flatslide carbs

Postby feef » Tue Jul 06, 2010 9:41 am

I'm aware of that discussion, but noone's actually come up with an answer as to whether the Mikunis fit or not, not least as to whether the 34mm is too large for a 400.

I was involved in the dicussion on one of the other lists mentioned...

I'm still up for contributing to a group purchase if anyone can be bothered getting it together.
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Re: Flatslide carbs

Postby Freestyle72 » Tue Jul 06, 2010 2:03 pm

Just fuel inject it!


If I came up with a fuel injection kit that cost as much as new flat slides. Would you buy it?
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Re: Flatslide carbs

Postby feef » Tue Jul 06, 2010 2:11 pm

Freestyle72 wrote:Just fuel inject it!


If I came up with a fuel injection kit that cost as much as new flat slides. Would you buy it?

That would be an interesting proposition indeed.

IF it would also fit other 400s then I'd be very interested.

Depends how good it is, tho. I know how hard it's been for some big name manufacturers to get FI engines running without surging at low revs.. but it's worth a shot.

What else would we need to fit along with that? MAF? oxygen probe in the exhaust?

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Re: Flatslide carbs

Postby Freestyle72 » Tue Jul 06, 2010 8:34 pm

Intake air temp sensor IAT
manifold air pressure sensor MAP
coolant temp sensor
O2 sensor
Microsquirt
R6 throttleboddies
High pressure fuel pump

etc...

I am doing it on my bike anyways. So I figure somethings like adapter plates for the throttleboddies will be something other people can use as well. All you would really need to do after that use R6 intake boots. Respace the throttlebody which would involve brazing a spacer into the fuel rail and the rest is all wiring.
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Re: Flatslide carbs

Postby feef » Wed Jul 07, 2010 3:14 am

Most of that seems to be either stock or modified R6 bits, and a couple of custom components.

I'd expect to get it all for much less than £1200 if that's the case.

I take it all the sensors would happily work with the smaller engine then?

I'd also expect it would need remapping?
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Re: Flatslide carbs

Postby yamaha_george » Wed Jul 07, 2010 9:13 am

Hi,
Intake air temp sensor IAT
manifold air pressure sensor MAP == 20UKP
coolant temp sensor
O2 sensor == 17.50 UKP
Microsquirt
R6 throttleboddies
High pressure fuel pump

any one else care to add approx prices to this list ?
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Re: Flatslide carbs

Postby feef » Wed Jul 07, 2010 9:19 am

yamaha_george wrote:Hi,
Intake air temp sensor IAT
manifold air pressure sensor MAP == 20UKP
coolant temp sensor
O2 sensor == 17.50 UKP
Microsquirt
R6 throttleboddies
High pressure fuel pump

any one else care to add approx prices to this list ?

I'm sure a lot of this could also be got from a scrapped/crashed R6 at a breakers?
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Re: Flatslide carbs

Postby DonTZ125 » Wed Jul 07, 2010 12:24 pm

Everything on the list except the O2 sensor and the Microsquirt itself can come from an 03=05 R6 (or 06+ R6S - you DON'T want the servo-operated TBs of the R6R). Don't forget, if you use a WBO2 sensor, you need a controller to go with it.

Feef - you won't be 'remapping' the controller, since it isn't yet mapped!

I've been planning something very similar for awhile using an MS2 on a V3.0 board and MS2/Extra 3.0.3 firmware; RealLife(tm) and health issues have been bears to work around...
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Re: Flatslide carbs

Postby feef » Wed Jul 07, 2010 12:38 pm

DonTZ125 wrote:Everything on the list except the O2 sensor and the Microsquirt itself can come from an 03=05 R6 (or 06+ R6S - you DON'T want the servo-operated TBs of the R6R). Don't forget, if you use a WBO2 sensor, you need a controller to go with it.

Feef - you won't be 'remapping' the controller, since it isn't yet mapped!

I've been planning something very similar for awhile using an MS2 on a V3.0 board and MS2/Extra 3.0.3 firmware; RealLife(tm) and health issues have been bears to work around...


This is a VERY interesting turn for me....

I'll need to do some reading up on the Microsquirt technology.

It looks like these guys provide a full "kit"

http://trigger-wheels.com/store/contents/en-uk/d31.html

I'm not sure on the Lambda sensor or EDIS module components.

For Lambda sensor there's "2J1 Wideband controller and sensor" or "Built-in narrowband lambda controller"

I've no idea what EDIS is...

They also list a 4 cylinder engine tacho driver for £9.. I would think that should connect with some R6 clocks nicely?

Thoughts?

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Re: Flatslide carbs

Postby DonTZ125 » Wed Jul 07, 2010 12:53 pm

The MicroSquirt (uS) Module is a bare-bones uS intended to be used in custom ECUs. It allows you to mount what is effectively a complete ECU on a custom adapter board, allowing plug'n'play connection with an existing black box. It probably isn't the best idea for the FZR; I think you'd be better off with the actual uS or a MegaSquirt (MS) unit.

Bear in mind that while 'fuel-only' rigs can probably be done with the uS or MS as they stand with the OEM FZR hardware, the current MS / uS hard- and firmware does not properly read the 'long-tooth' crank rotor. I do have an idea that I would love to try if my f'n health (and thus finances) improve to the point I can start working on it again!
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Re: Flatslide carbs

Postby yamaha_george » Wed Jul 07, 2010 1:33 pm

Don,
by long tooth do you mean the 359 toothed wheel (missing tooth wheel ) or a yamaha type long bump as timing device?
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Re: Flatslide carbs

Postby olie05 » Wed Jul 07, 2010 3:37 pm

I think he means the US spec FZR 600 flywheel, with four evenly spaced teeth, one longer than the others.

Like this:
Image

seeing as how this has gone from a discussion of flatslides to megasquirt, perhaps the thread title should be modified?

Also, here's my .02 about megasquirt:

Intake air temp sensor IAT $20
manifold air pressure sensor MAP - included on most megasquirt boards, for microsquirt probably about $40
coolant temp sensor $20
O2 sensor - for a wideband about $200, for a narrow band about $30
Microsquirt $400
R6 throttleboddies $50 (get the 03-05 and r6s version. Will have to be modified for spacing)
High pressure fuel pump $60 depending on what bike you hack it off of.

To trigger the ignition, i was planning on grinding down the long tooth, and using the flywheel as a 4-1 missing tooth trigger wheel. Megasquirt can understand this and fire the coils in wasted spark mode using this method. The problem is signal conditioning the vr sensor. (v3 megasquirt has provisions for this, so it's not completely off the chart) I would not add edis4 because you have to mount 2 more parts to the bike. Megasquirt can take care of everything (ignition and fuel) without these modules, so i would keep it simple.

A note about the MAP sensor: This is not necessary, and possibly a poor way to measure engine load on such a small displacement high revving engine, with such a small "plenum" volume ( the thing is there really is no plenum...). An alternate way to measure load using megasquirt is to just use the TPS which will come with the throttle bodies. Instead of Map vs. RPM fuel maps and ignition maps, you will have TPS vs RPM maps. This is called Alpha-N fueling. Map based fueling is called Speed-density.

Also, this has been done before on a fzr engine, just in a yzf, by diztroy. This shows how he adapted the throttle bodies to fit on the motor:
http://www.oldskoolyzf.com/gallery2/mai ... g2_page=26

For some interesting reading... (interesting for some boring for others)
http://www.megamanual.com/v22manual/mwire.htm

Maybe we should start a megasquirt thread in the wiki?
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Re: Mega/Microsquirt ECUs

Postby feef » Thu Jul 08, 2010 3:52 am

(topic updated)

Without going out to the garage and stripping my engines further, does the 400 have a relevant timing/trigger wheel already in place, or is that something I'd have to look at sorting out too?

The chaps that do the microsquirt package I linked to specialise in triggerwheels.
http://trigger-wheels.com/store/contents/en-uk/d5.html
Just not sure where we could locate one

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