New Product Feeler - Tip-over sensor controller

Moderators: Site Director, FZR Forum Moderators

DonTZ125
Moderator
Posts: 2213
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2008 11:20 pm
Location: Scarberia, ON
Contact:

New Product Feeler - Tip-over sensor controller

Postby DonTZ125 » Sat Jun 04, 2011 2:10 am

This is for the folks planning, working on, or completed an EFI conversion.

One of the differences IIRC between carbed and FI bikes is that a carbed bike on its side will usually starve of fuel before the bearings starve of oil; a well-topped FI bike may very well keep running until the engine seizes. Just about every EFI bike comes with a tip-over / 'lean angle' sensor that tells the ECU that gravity has won this match, please switch off. Early models were simple mechanical switches, with the disadvantage that a little tail shimmy in a spirited corner could chop your engine, leading to Bad Things(tm).

Current Yamaha design practice uses a potentiometer with a pendulum for a wiper as a lean-angle / fell-over sensor; if the ECU sees that the pendulum has been sitting at the end of its range for some predetermined time, it shuts down.

The MS and uS controllers don't have this ability to pause and think about it. A spare input could monitor the sensor value and trigger an output to block the FP relay signal, but it would be an 'ON/OFF' situation, like the original switches.

I want to build a unit that would plug directly into the R6 sensor (used on many Yamaha bikes, and readily available on EBay). It would be wired inline between the FP relay and pin 37 on the MS (pin 8 on the uS), and would include a timer that would kill the FP signal for 10 sec after being triggered for 3 sec. This allows a pretty good jump sideways, but still chop the engine quickly in the event of a crash.

If health and finances (and the wife's 'Honey-do' list) permit, I'd like to go to prototype in a week or so. I'm thinking $60 would be a reasonable price.

Thoughts? Comments?

User avatar
sweekster
2000+ Posts
2000+ Posts
Posts: 2773
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 10:52 am
Location: Perris, CA

Re: New Product Feeler - Tip-over sensor controller

Postby sweekster » Sat Jun 04, 2011 2:57 pm

So this has to wait until next week? Slacker... :rofl:

I like this idea so I'm for it
Duane...
Bike:
1994 Yamaha FZR 1000 EXUP
Factory Pro Stage 1 Jetting | K&N Filter | Corbin Seat | ProTek Keyless Gas Cap | GSXR Mirrors
My Thread
Cage:
2005 Saab 9-7x 5.3i Arc AWD

Image


THE WIKI IS YOUR FRIEND
THE SEARCH IS YOUR SIGNIFICANT OTHER
USE THEM!!

User avatar
yamaha_george
5000+ Posts
5000+ Posts
Posts: 5853
Joined: Fri May 09, 2008 8:46 am
Location: west london UK
Contact:

Re: New Product Feeler - Tip-over sensor controller

Postby yamaha_george » Sun Jun 05, 2011 1:31 am

Don,
sounds sensible and at 60 USD not OTT on price

User avatar
ragedigital
4000+ Posts
4000+ Posts
Posts: 4151
Joined: Wed May 07, 2008 9:30 am
Location: Northwest St. Louis

Re: New Product Feeler - Tip-over sensor controller

Postby ragedigital » Sun Jun 05, 2011 9:14 am

A couple tilt switches and a uC would do the trick. You really don't need to know the variable angle, just the absolute. The user would have to position the unit properly, but that shouldn't be an issue. A RED LED on the unit could tell the rider when the tip-over circuit was activated.

Let me know if you need help with uC programming or circuit/PCB design.
Thanks for joining and participating in the most "active" FZR Community on the internet!

User avatar
reelrazor
Wrench
Wrench
Posts: 1658
Joined: Sun Oct 05, 2008 8:19 am

Re: New Product Feeler - Tip-over sensor controller

Postby reelrazor » Sun Jun 05, 2011 9:58 am

what about the gyroscopes they use in RC helicopters and such?..or even the ones in say an I-phone?

Would they be adaptable for this kind of thing?
http://www.michiganmobileservice.com/


Image

“A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools.”-Douglas Adams

http://www.youtube.com/user/reelrazor

Freestyle72
Level 4.0
Level 4.0
Posts: 418
Joined: Sun May 10, 2009 8:23 am
Location: Milton, Ontario, Canada

Re: New Product Feeler - Tip-over sensor controller

Postby Freestyle72 » Sun Jun 05, 2011 11:26 am

reelrazor wrote:what about the gyroscopes they use in RC helicopters and such?..or even the ones in say an I-phone?

Would they be adaptable for this kind of thing?


Why would you go through the hassle when people are practically throwing away tip over sensors for modern EFI bikes for $20 or less on ebay. All you need is that $20 sensor and a way to delay the signal. Don and I had spoken over the phone about implementing that system on my project. So I did a quick search online and book marked this:
http://www.ehow.com/how_4827785_build-t ... rcuit.html

There are quite a few guides like this available. The main component used in all is the 555 timer (whatever the hell that means).

I think it's great you are willing to offer this Don, but your target market is really quite narrow at this point. However since it would apply to any bike getting an EFI conversion I suppose you could get the word out on other forums, exup worldwide would be one where there are a few efi converisons, as well as kawiforums etc. I find that more european riders approach these kinds of projects than north american riders. I love reading some of the euro builds as they really do go over the top on a lot of their builds. Wish I could read german and dutch for this very reason. Furthermore I know a few people on customfighters.com are doing EFI builds so they want this item as well. I think one guy is actually making his own ECU as well.

User avatar
ragedigital
4000+ Posts
4000+ Posts
Posts: 4151
Joined: Wed May 07, 2008 9:30 am
Location: Northwest St. Louis

Re: New Product Feeler - Tip-over sensor controller

Postby ragedigital » Sun Jun 05, 2011 3:39 pm

Freestyle72 wrote:Why would you go through the hassle when people are practically throwing away tip over sensors for modern EFI bikes for $20 or less on ebay. All you need is that $20 sensor and a way to delay the signal.


The majority of tip sensors that you see are simply the sensor itself. It does not have a microcontroller to handle the delay or the result of the tip. It has to plug into the bike's ECU to do anything. If the ECU that Don is using already has the programming for the tip sensor, then purchasing one of those might make sense.

A couple of tilt switches will run around $3 for both. You can also use an accelerometer, but they cost substantially more.

Freestyle72 wrote:The main component used in all is the 555 timer (whatever the hell that means).


The 555 timer is a very popular IC chip. You can vary the resistor and capacitor values in the circuit to make it complete different timed circuits.

Instead of using a 555 timer a microcontroller (such as a Microchip PIC) can be set up to handle any delay the user selects and retain that in the non-voltaile EEPROM memory. It can light an LED, when the bike is tipped, count the seconds it has been tipped, etc...
Thanks for joining and participating in the most "active" FZR Community on the internet!

DonTZ125
Moderator
Posts: 2213
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2008 11:20 pm
Location: Scarberia, ON
Contact:

Re: New Product Feeler - Tip-over sensor controller

Postby DonTZ125 » Sun Jun 05, 2011 5:54 pm

I pulled the sensor apart last night, and it is NOT a pot, but rather a hall (powered magnetic) sensor with a pendulum. I may simply discard the notion of the R6 sensor and go stand-alone with on-board tip sensors. The advantage to the R6 unit is that it's already set up for hard mounting, with bolting lugs, rubber isolators, and "TOP" moulded into the case. The controller will be significantly larger, and may pose mounting issues if it has to be set 'flat'.

Back to the catalogues...


Return to “TTR Ignition [Electronics]”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest